Tá tudo dito no tópico. Eu ainda não tenho opinião formada mas só de ler o que aqui está mete medo:
http://tehranbureau.com/iran-updates/
A situação no Irão - que acham?
tech
23/06/2009 10:22
#42806
Negative
23/06/2009 11:02
#42810
Não consigo abrir esse site, mas vejo a questão de uma forma muito simples. Nunca vai haver entendimento entre Europa/EUA e restantes países da NATO e países islâmicos, Coreias e afins... a partir daí todos os possíveis "entendimentos" são mera utopia. São culturas muito diferentes e o Homem é demasiado estúpido para ultrapassar estas diferenças.
Para "ajudar", estes países "perigosos" são sempre governados por homens radicais, estupidamente teimosos e com a mania da perseguição. Ressalvo que não estou também a defender os EUA... não são santos nenhuns...
Quanto ao Irão propriamente dito, acredito piamente que as eleição foram fraudulentas. O presidente Ahmadinejad é claramente uma personna non grata... basta ver as manifestações. Para tal acontecer numa país como aquele é preciso haver grande descontentamento por parte das pessoas, que por costume são submissas...
Poderemos estar à porta de uma guerra civil....
Para "ajudar", estes países "perigosos" são sempre governados por homens radicais, estupidamente teimosos e com a mania da perseguição. Ressalvo que não estou também a defender os EUA... não são santos nenhuns...
Quanto ao Irão propriamente dito, acredito piamente que as eleição foram fraudulentas. O presidente Ahmadinejad é claramente uma personna non grata... basta ver as manifestações. Para tal acontecer numa país como aquele é preciso haver grande descontentamento por parte das pessoas, que por costume são submissas...
Poderemos estar à porta de uma guerra civil....
tech
23/06/2009 11:25
#42813
Vale a pena ler tudo:
Update: Monday 8 pm Tehran time
Tehran resident: I am just back from 7 tir square where there was supposed to be a memorial for the 7th day of the martyrs.
Drove down there at 4 ish. there were a lot of people in the square, but no one allowed to gather, so people were just walking up and down the meydoon (square). there was a HEAVY military presence — all kinds, basij, riot police, khahki (camouflage) uniformed ones — all on motorbikes, or in pick up trucks or standing — they ALL had those batons and weren’t allowing people to stand still (ie. gather). we walked around and tried to have a look from those walkways that cover the meydoon/square but the police were also on them so wouldn’t let u stand still for a second.
people were also gathering in the koocheh’s (alleyways) off the side of the square too see what was going to happen and if we could gather in one place. there was not just young people, but all kinds of age groups and people from all walks of life. then the police would start coming to an alley where a lot of people were and shout at them to move along/disperse. they would then get aggro and start chasing people down the alleyways, hitting with batons. people would run but then gather in another alleyway… very resilient.
we moved through the various alleyways too until shouted at to leave. these police are v v intimidating. like animals really as u just dont know if they are gonna wack you (which they would). i wanted to take photos of the milit presence, but it was way too scary. honestly people who manage to record or take photos are incredibly shoja (brave). then we saw that they had blockaded one alleyway (koocheh mina) and people were getting trapped and beaten up with the batons. there were people on roofs/windows looking so i hope they managed to record some stuff. we moved around the meydoon and streets. after hearing/seeing that they were blockading people in alleys.
we decided it was safer to stay in the main square and move around. over the few hours it was getting busier with protesters, but i think they needed someone like mousavi or another figure so as to gather around him. it was v v difficult to gather.
then we moved to another side of the square and the police started chasing and tear gassing people — it really spreads… and though i wasn’t too close it went up my nose and had a strong burning/stinging sensation. people were now wearing those surgical masks but there eyes were all red. people were lighting cigarettes and blowing the smoke into peoples eyes as it helps get rid of the stinging. i gave several people cigarettes to help and blew smoke into a strangers faces to help them (something i would of course never do!!). then the police started chasing people down a street and smashing windows and following protesters into bldngs which was quite scary (no where is safe then).
we kept moving around the meydoon and streets, as were other people, which were definately in their thousands. people were breaking into sporadic chants of ‘allah akbars’ on the meydoon — which i managed to record.
then around 6 ish we were standing near an alley entrance and the police on motorbikes with batons started chasing us badly. we could only run up the street and they are chasing u on these bikes about 5/6 mtrs away shouting at u to disperse — it is absolutely petrifying. we were running on the sidewalk. they also had whips with them. there were so many of them just riding and shouting at you. then we heard shots and u just don’t know whether they are going to even shoot (as we know they have done before). i am not sure whether it was guns or firecrackers or what but at the time u all think is that it is guns, and that u are about to feel a bullet hit u in the back or something as u run. all i did was run with my hands clasped (like i was praying) and just trying to make eye contact with them so that they could see the sheer fear in my face! then a door opened in the street and some people were ushering us into their garden to hide in there in case the motor police guys came back (honestly there must have been like 50-70 of them chasing us).
we then hid in this grdn for a bit with like 20 or so other people but it really wasn’t the best idea. i thought as i had seen them go into people’s houses and smash doors etc minutes before and then there is no escape for u. so we waited like 10 mins and crept out. it was really quite scary. anyways. let us see what else comes out of the news this evening. i hope no one was killed but i do know pple were beaten up for sure.
Update: Monday 8 pm Tehran time
Tehran resident: I am just back from 7 tir square where there was supposed to be a memorial for the 7th day of the martyrs.
Drove down there at 4 ish. there were a lot of people in the square, but no one allowed to gather, so people were just walking up and down the meydoon (square). there was a HEAVY military presence — all kinds, basij, riot police, khahki (camouflage) uniformed ones — all on motorbikes, or in pick up trucks or standing — they ALL had those batons and weren’t allowing people to stand still (ie. gather). we walked around and tried to have a look from those walkways that cover the meydoon/square but the police were also on them so wouldn’t let u stand still for a second.
people were also gathering in the koocheh’s (alleyways) off the side of the square too see what was going to happen and if we could gather in one place. there was not just young people, but all kinds of age groups and people from all walks of life. then the police would start coming to an alley where a lot of people were and shout at them to move along/disperse. they would then get aggro and start chasing people down the alleyways, hitting with batons. people would run but then gather in another alleyway… very resilient.
we moved through the various alleyways too until shouted at to leave. these police are v v intimidating. like animals really as u just dont know if they are gonna wack you (which they would). i wanted to take photos of the milit presence, but it was way too scary. honestly people who manage to record or take photos are incredibly shoja (brave). then we saw that they had blockaded one alleyway (koocheh mina) and people were getting trapped and beaten up with the batons. there were people on roofs/windows looking so i hope they managed to record some stuff. we moved around the meydoon and streets. after hearing/seeing that they were blockading people in alleys.
we decided it was safer to stay in the main square and move around. over the few hours it was getting busier with protesters, but i think they needed someone like mousavi or another figure so as to gather around him. it was v v difficult to gather.
then we moved to another side of the square and the police started chasing and tear gassing people — it really spreads… and though i wasn’t too close it went up my nose and had a strong burning/stinging sensation. people were now wearing those surgical masks but there eyes were all red. people were lighting cigarettes and blowing the smoke into peoples eyes as it helps get rid of the stinging. i gave several people cigarettes to help and blew smoke into a strangers faces to help them (something i would of course never do!!). then the police started chasing people down a street and smashing windows and following protesters into bldngs which was quite scary (no where is safe then).
we kept moving around the meydoon and streets, as were other people, which were definately in their thousands. people were breaking into sporadic chants of ‘allah akbars’ on the meydoon — which i managed to record.
then around 6 ish we were standing near an alley entrance and the police on motorbikes with batons started chasing us badly. we could only run up the street and they are chasing u on these bikes about 5/6 mtrs away shouting at u to disperse — it is absolutely petrifying. we were running on the sidewalk. they also had whips with them. there were so many of them just riding and shouting at you. then we heard shots and u just don’t know whether they are going to even shoot (as we know they have done before). i am not sure whether it was guns or firecrackers or what but at the time u all think is that it is guns, and that u are about to feel a bullet hit u in the back or something as u run. all i did was run with my hands clasped (like i was praying) and just trying to make eye contact with them so that they could see the sheer fear in my face! then a door opened in the street and some people were ushering us into their garden to hide in there in case the motor police guys came back (honestly there must have been like 50-70 of them chasing us).
we then hid in this grdn for a bit with like 20 or so other people but it really wasn’t the best idea. i thought as i had seen them go into people’s houses and smash doors etc minutes before and then there is no escape for u. so we waited like 10 mins and crept out. it was really quite scary. anyways. let us see what else comes out of the news this evening. i hope no one was killed but i do know pple were beaten up for sure.
The Aristocat
23/06/2009 13:36
#42817
Podem também acompanhar em citizentube.com.
me-metal
23/06/2009 14:39
#42820
Em parte, entendo a posição Iraniana, pois ng tem d tar ali a meter o nariz...pk akilo é deles e só a eles diz respeito!
Por outro lado, e esta é a mha opinião ocidental, n axo k seja uma posição ekilibrada / justa....
Por outro lado, e esta é a mha opinião ocidental, n axo k seja uma posição ekilibrada / justa....
Picoto
23/06/2009 18:16
#42823
O que está a acontecer é mais que importante.
Estão em questão os valores mais básicos do ser humano.
Estão em questão os valores mais básicos do ser humano.
Picoto
24/06/2009 18:06
#42891
Não querendo discordar sucintamente de ti, pergunto te:
Se tivesses num pais onde obviamente está instaurado um governo de repressão social e de democracia questionavel. Não querias que metessem o nariz no teu pais. É pk se ng meter o nariz...
É acabar com fundamentalistas!
Se tivesses num pais onde obviamente está instaurado um governo de repressão social e de democracia questionavel. Não querias que metessem o nariz no teu pais. É pk se ng meter o nariz...
É acabar com fundamentalistas!
cavalo
24/06/2009 19:41
#42903
ta tudo tramado pa lá
me-metal
25/06/2009 17:32
#42998
Não querendo discordar sucintamente de ti, pergunto te:
Se tivesses num pais onde obviamente está instaurado um governo de repressão social e de democracia questionavel. Não querias que metessem o nariz no teu pais. É pk se ng meter o nariz...
É acabar com fundamentalistas!
Sei o k keres dizer, daí k tenha referido a mha "opinião ocidental", pk da maneira k vejo, n tá certo...é extremista e absurdo!
Ms tb temos d ver k n podemos impor a nossa vontad em todo o lad k n estiver em concordância connosco! (Imagina lá s foss ao contrário??)
Kt à repressao social...n axo k hajam diferenças práticas entre reprimires directa e descaradament e reprimires indirecta e subtilmente. (Ok, n vai dar ao mesmo ms é so pa salientar k nos tb n vivems numa sociedad assim tao superior...apenas + disfarçada!)
Picoto
29/06/2009 15:41
#43262
Sim percebo o teu "anti-americanismo" lol (o meter nariz em tudo, donos do mundo)
O que eu acho é que os governos têm de ter medo do seu povo e não o contrário. E se for preciso arrebentar com tudo, que assim seja. Antes morrer de pé que viver de joelhos.
O que eu acho é que os governos têm de ter medo do seu povo e não o contrário. E se for preciso arrebentar com tudo, que assim seja. Antes morrer de pé que viver de joelhos.
me-metal
29/06/2009 17:23
#43291
Certo!